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authorJoe Rayhawk <jrayhawk@freedesktop.org>2013-07-08 08:26:53 +0000
committerJoe Rayhawk <jrayhawk@freedesktop.org>2013-07-08 08:26:53 +0000
commit6939632b057f539516724eaa82c82d0dbd89e16a (patch)
tree7d9bc26a608b432ab9cde83823a904f687563a16 /BoardOfDirectors/IrcLogs/2011
parentf9ecbd6ffe8e94a75569f334dc4ab9d3f9e8489d (diff)
parent4f5d08e1fd8fc5feca433bc754a93c34af42dced (diff)
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+Date is 2011-10-13, times are UTC+02.
+{{{
+23:00 <agd5f> hi
+23:00 <+alanc> good afternoon
+23:00 <+alanc> hopefully everyone got today's reminder e-mail in time to actually pull off a meeting, unlike last time
+23:01 <+anholt_> I got it this time
+23:01 <+alanc> I got mine too, without having to poke tollef to kick mailman this week
+23:03 <+alanc> so who else is here today and hasn't spoken up? emmes? keithp? stukreit? Bart_Massey?
+23:03 <+Bart_Massey> Howdy!
+23:03 <+Bart_Massey> Just got here a sec ago.
+23:03 <+alanc> yeah, I saw the join
+23:04 <+emmes> hey
+23:04 <+alanc> so far I have 4 board members actually around - guess I'll quickly run down the hall to poke stuart
+23:04 <keithp> afternoon!
+23:04 <+emmes> I'm on the road, I might lag a bit, or drop off in between
+23:04 <stukreit> hi!
+23:05 <+alanc> okay, looks like that's everyone but mherrb
+23:05 <stukreit> (poked)
+23:05 <+alanc> first agenda item I had was XDC wrapup
+23:05 <+alanc> obviously big thanks to Michael for putting it all together
+23:06 <+alanc> stukreit: anything you want to report about XDC expenses/payments?
+23:06 <stukreit> I guess I should write up the totals. Sorry, I don't have them today
+23:06 <+Bart_Massey> Indeed! Michael went through more process than I can remember us ever having, and handled it beautifully
+23:06 <stukreit> I paid off all but one expense request.
+23:07 <+alanc> some of that process we need to get used to for the sake of our IRS conformance though
+23:08 <stukreit> yeah, bulging files
+23:09 <+alanc> and we have two worthwhile proposals to start thinking about for next year (Dublin & Nuremberg)
+23:09 <+Bart_Massey> alanc: Probably. But it will be hard to find someone willing to do what Michael did in 2012 :-)
+23:09 <+Bart_Massey> That's good news! I guess I missed it somehow.
+23:09 <+alanc> Dave Airlie mailed the board about Dublin a month or so ago, and Luc V. presented about Nuremberg during a empty slot at XDC
+23:10 <+alanc> the advantage of the Nuremberg proposal is it's at least 3 people spreading the organizational load (Luc, Egbert, & emmes)
+23:11 <+Bart_Massey> And they are known-good organizationally. Also, we were just in Edinburgh not too long ago, no?
+23:12 <+Bart_Massey> Maybe spreading things around a bit more is better?
+23:12 <+alanc> France was 2010, so Edinburgh would have been 2008
+23:12 <+Bart_Massey> That was a long time ago. Yow.
+23:13 <+emmes> We also might have the advantage of getting a free conference room, either sponsored by SuSE, or in the local university. but we haven't explored all options yet :-]
+23:13 <+alanc> in any case, we have a little time to decide on next year's plan
+23:13 <+alanc> anything else XDC related to discuss today?
+23:13 <+Bart_Massey> Yeah, doesn't have to be this month at least. But I'd like to give a little more lead time than in 2011 just for grins...
+23:14 <+alanc> the next agenda item I had was kicking the ass of the election committee to remind them it's time to start planning the election calendar
+23:14 <+alanc> Since that would be the most recently elected set of board members, this year's election committee is alanc, anholt_, Bart_Massey & stukreit
+23:15 <stukreit> oh loverly
+23:15 <+alanc> though I guess the first step is making sure the election committee mailing list points to us, so we can start working on that by e-mail
+23:15 <agd5f> The election wiki on the bod wiki is pretty good. I updated it last year
+23:15 <+alanc> yes, it walked us through it pretty well last time I was on the committee
+23:16 <+emmes> I can agree on that. thanks for working on it, Alex!
+23:16 <stukreit> I could take a look at that next week (kinda swamped for next 5 days)
+23:16 <agd5f> stukreit: looks like you are stepping up ;)
+23:17 <+alanc> well, if you hadn't taken the roof off your house just before the rain started, it might be less swampy
+23:17 <+alanc> in any case, I think we can consider the election committee reminded and I'll try to help out stuart as well next week getting that going
+23:18 <+alanc> so the last agenda item I had was the EVoC request
+23:18 <stukreit> ok. bring a crowbar and work gloves
+23:18 <+Bart_Massey> Am I still the EVoC lead, or did I manage to pawn that off on someone?
+23:19 <agd5f> looked good to me. maybe we can actually do an EVoC
+23:19 <+alanc> we discussed trying to pawn that off on marcoz (Matt Dew) at one point, but there were no actual proposals at that time so I think we just forgot before we ever asked him about it
+23:20 <marcoz> alanc: say whaa?
+23:20 <+Bart_Massey> 'scool. But I should pay more attention in that case. :-)
+23:20 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: You want to be point-of-contact for the Endless Vacation of Code program?
+23:20 <+Bart_Massey> It's not a very hard job; you just have to answer some emails in a timely fashion.
+23:20 <+Bart_Massey> More than I can manage, though. :-)
+23:20 <marcoz> what else is involved ?
+23:20 <+alanc> based on the similarity in email addresses and irc nicks, I assume curro is our applicant?
+23:21 <curro> yeah that's me
+23:21 <curro> so i'm i the first person that has ever requested you an evoc?
+23:21 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: Just make sure that the Board is paying attention and eventually does something with each proposal
+23:21 <+Bart_Massey> curro: No, but we get at most a couple of requests a year.
+23:21 <+Bart_Massey> Usually we have to turn them down for some reason.
+23:22 <+Bart_Massey> curro: You are still a student of some sort, correct?
+23:22 <curro> Bart_Massey: yes.
+23:22 <+alanc> I think only one proposal made it as far as getting approved, and then the student got a fulltime job and dropped out
+23:22 <agd5f> we actually did a few the year we didn't get any gsoc slots I think, but I don't think anyone finished
+23:22 <marcoz> Bart_Massey: so I just have to run people down an make sure no student gets dropped through the cracks?
+23:22 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: Yep
+23:22 <+alanc> marcoz: much like you were already doing unofficially earlier this year 8-)
+23:23 <+Bart_Massey> After reviewing that thread, the only question I have is do we have a mentor for curro?
+23:23 <marcoz> alanc: if that's what's involved, then I could probably do that.
+23:23 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: You are awesome as always
+23:24 * marcoz blushing.
+23:24 <+alanc> I don't know enough about the technical details of OpenCL & Gallium to comment much on that, but the proposal did look like he'd spent time understanding the problem and coming up with a plan of attack
+23:24 <curro> Bart_Massey: Ben Skeggs (darktama) stepped up to do it, but i'm not sure he's eligible for the task
+23:24 <+Bart_Massey> If someone is willing to be the "official" mentor POC for curro, I'm strongly +1
+23:24 <agd5f> Bart_Massey: yes. Ben said he would. and I think Tom said he could help too
+23:24 <+Bart_Massey> Why wouldn't Ben be eligible?
+23:24 <curro> just wondering :)
+23:24 <+Bart_Massey> AFAIK anybody the Board trusts is fine.
+23:25 <+Bart_Massey> I only want a singular mentor because we need a "responsible party". The mentor can share the work as widely as desired.
+23:25 <+Bart_Massey> I would strongly suggest that we insist that the mentor become a member of the X.Org Foundation, though. :-)
+23:25 <+alanc> the plan said 4 months - would we be planning on basically matching the GSoC rates/timeline? ($5000 total, half at midterms, half at final, subject to mentor signoff that work has been done)
+23:26 <tstellar> Yeah, I could help.
+23:26 <+Bart_Massey> I would be much more comfortable if there was a way to break the work into two 2-month chunks.
+23:26 <agd5f> anyone want to write up the requirements in the evoc wiki? We should actually document what we expect
+23:26 <+Bart_Massey> 4 months is a long time to run without a final result.
+23:27 <+anholt_> hey former elections committee: any of you have the mailman admin password saved and can update the list of members? or possibly store it on expo somewhere so I can handle it?
+23:27 <+Bart_Massey> But if there's no sensible midpoint, then I'd say we need to pay a little more for 4 months than Google does for roughly 12 weeks.
+23:28 <+Bart_Massey> And maybe we should break things into 3 or 4 payments instead of just 2.
+23:29 <+anholt_> Bart_Massey: huh, neither of them are members currently :)
+23:29 <agd5f> there are 4 items on the proposal. we could break it down per item
+23:29 <+alanc> the last version of his proposal in my inbox seems to have a good midpoint " At this point the code could already be used as a working but
+23:29 <+alanc> non-standard computing library." after steps 1 & 2, which are estimated at 7-8 weeks
+23:29 <+Bart_Massey> agd5f: You mean general requirements for EVoC or for this specific project
+23:29 <+Bart_Massey> alanc: perfect
+23:29 <agd5f> Bart_Massey: general
+23:29 <+Bart_Massey> I thought there was already an EVoC page. If not, I guess I should make it.
+23:29 <marcoz> http://www.x.org/wiki/XorgEVoC
+23:30 <+alanc> the remaining part is estimated at 5 weeks, so not exactly half way
+23:30 <+Bart_Massey> alanc: Close enough. On reflection, I'm actually fine with a single project, but I want to see more frequent payment milestones than twice in 4 months.
+23:30 <+alanc> but perhaps he hasn't yet learned the universal law of software scheduling yet ("The first 80% takes 80% of the planned time, the last 20% also takes 80% of the planned time.")
+23:30 <agd5f> Bart_Massey: even something as simple as "aim for a 3-4 month project. $5000 total, half at midterms, half at final, subject to mentor signoff that work has been done"
+23:30 <+Bart_Massey> So maybe the spot you suggested is one of those milestones.
+23:31 <+Bart_Massey> agd5f: Fair enough. Working.
+23:31 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: BTW, I'm putting the target for EVoC on your back. What email address should I use?
+23:32 <marcoz> marcoz@osource.org
+23:32 <+Bart_Massey> tx
+23:32 <+alanc> there is a finer breakdown in the first half his plan of stage 1 (roughly 3 weeks) & stage 2 (roughly 4 weeks) if you wanted to break it down further
+23:32 <marcoz> is one of the requirements at least _some_ programming ability, or comfort around compilers, command line, etc. ?
+23:34 <agd5f> marcoz: student has to be able to accomplish what they set out to do. doesn't have to be programming per se (could be documentation,etc.), but I think most will be
+23:34 <+Bart_Massey> alanc: Sounds perfect. Payment at stage 1, stage 2 and final
+23:34 <marcoz> agd5f: so documentation could fall under EvoC? dang, I wish I knew that 7 months ago.
+23:34 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: We'll help you evaluate students. I'll try to edit the reqs hints on the wiki right now, and folks can change it as they desire
+23:35 <marcoz> Bart_Massey: whew, I was assuming that you guys would do the actual evalutions. I just the gopher. thanks for confirming.
+23:35 <agd5f> I guess we could put the curro's proposal on the wiki as a current evoc project if we accept it
+23:36 <+alanc> marcoz: I'd have been happy to see you do an evoc proposal for docs - it's not too late to turn down running the show to be a student participant...
+23:36 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: The Board never actually discussed this, so chalk it up to Board fail. I'm actually fine with technical documentation for EVoC, but we'd have to think carefully about how it would work.
+23:36 <+Bart_Massey> alanc: Not sure marcoz is still a student :-)
+23:36 <+Bart_Massey> So are we ready to vote curro's proposal?
+23:36 <marcoz> I'm not a student. I was just thinking that I was trying to get some schlep, I mean student, to help me with the docs. but GSoC doens't accept documentation.
+23:37 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: Ahh. Yes, definitely look into this.
+23:37 <+alanc> and in that case, we might ask you to evaluate, as one of the most knowledgable folks in that area currently
+23:37 <marcoz> Bart_Massey: if documentation is ok for GSoC?
+23:38 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: yes
+23:38 <agd5f> I think google requires code
+23:38 <marcoz> it is not. :( I looked into it.
+23:38 <+alanc> google is pretty firm on that one
+23:38 <marcoz> it has to be coding.
+23:38 <+alanc> but EVoC can be whatever we want it to be
+23:40 <+alanc> so we're almost ready to vote I think
+23:40 <marcoz> ok, if I can find someone to work on docs for 4 months I'll let folks know.
+23:40 <+Bart_Massey> cool
+23:40 <+alanc> GSoC is $5000 for 12 weeks - are we expecting this to be a 16 week project and adjusting up accordingly?
+23:41 <+Bart_Massey> imho yes
+23:42 <+alanc> the Oct 4 mail had a schedule of 3 weeks + 4 weeks + 3 weeks + 2 weeks, which would be just 12
+23:42 <+alanc> and I guess the question also goes to curro of how long he has to devote to this before the next semester of classes start for him
+23:42 <agd5f> we should probably put some time/$ limit on it
+23:43 <+Bart_Massey> agd5f: I think we need to set the whole thing up explicitly up front.
+23:43 <+alanc> also curro: about when did you plan on doing this? I don't see a planned start or stop date in the mail
+23:43 <agd5f> otherwise, it could be abused
+23:43 <+Bart_Massey> I think the Google plan of having definite milestones up front and stopping paying the student unless they make them is fine.
+23:44 <+Bart_Massey> I am confident the mentor will track this for us.
+23:44 <agd5f> yeah, that should work
+23:44 <+Bart_Massey> (OK, the Google plan of having the mentor verify that the whole thing is continuing to make progress/sense. It's OK if the mentor and student agree on different goals. But the milestone dates should be set in stone.)
+23:44 <curro> alanc: i plan to start as soon as my proposal is accepted, and as i said i have 4 months from now that i'll be able to devote to it full-time
+23:45 <+alanc> so approx Oct. 14 to Feb 14?
+23:46 <curro> yes, that would work for me
+23:46 <+Bart_Massey> alanc: I will block on the wiki edits until you finish... Maybe I won't have to do anything. :-)
+23:46 <+alanc> oh oops, I was just fixing it to list Matt as X.Org member not Board member
+23:47 <+Bart_Massey> Oh well. :-) Thanks.
+23:47 * marcoz almost drunk with power.
+23:47 <+Bart_Massey> LOL
+23:47 <+alanc> done editing
+23:47 <+Bart_Massey> tx
+23:48 <+Bart_Massey> Anyway, I move that we accept curro's proposal, conditional on the mentor working out a payment schedule to our satisfaction.
+23:49 <+alanc> $5000 / 12 weeks = 416.66 per week, so if we're assuming 16 weeks, it would scale to $6666.66
+23:49 <marcheu> FWIW SoC is 4500/12 weeks
+23:49 <marcoz> $500 goes to the organization
+23:50 <+alanc> oh, then it makes a nice rounder $6000 for 16 weeks
+23:50 <marcheu> marcoz: right, not to the student
+23:50 <+alanc> for some reason I was remembering $5000 to student plus $500 to org/mentor
+23:51 <+Bart_Massey> Anyway, I guess I will modify my proposal to reflect that we accept curro's proposal, with three payments of $2000, milestone dates to be determined by the mentor to our satisfaction.
+23:51 <marcoz> "Google will provide a stipend of 5500 USD per accepted student developer, of which 5000 USD goes to the student and 500 USD goes to the mentoring organization."
+23:51 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: Yeah, they upped their rate last year.
+23:51 <marcheu> heh, I had no idea
+23:51 <+Bart_Massey> Anyway, I think $6000 is a nice reasonable number. Anybody object?
+23:51 <marcoz> http://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2011/faqs#payments_work (for anyone interested)
+23:52 <+alanc> $6000 sounds good to me
+23:52 <+alanc> +1
+23:52 <agd5f> +1
+23:53 <stukreit> +1
+23:54 <+alanc> keithp? anholt_? emmes?
+23:54 <marcoz> is curro's proposal anywhere public?
+23:55 <+alanc> not yet, just in board e-mail
+23:55 <+Bart_Massey> marcoz: I think just on the Board list right now. Have him email you a copy.
+23:55 <marcoz> Bart_Massey: will do. thx.
+23:55 <marcoz> curro: can you email a copy to marcoz@osource.org?
+23:57 <+emmes> sorry, dropped off. sounds good to me. +1
+23:57 <+alanc> that's 5 so we have a majority
+23:57 <+anholt_> sorry, turned around for conversation in the office. +1.
+23:57 <+Bart_Massey> I realized too late that GSoC starts with an initial payment. This would be a better plan. Anybody object to 4 $1500 payments instead of 3 $2000 ones?
+23:58 <agd5f> fine with me
+23:58 <+Bart_Massey> It's not fair to curro to ask him not to eat for a month. :-)
+23:58 <curro> marcoz: done
+23:58 * curro is fine either way
+23:59 <marcoz> curro: thx
+23:59 <+alanc> anything else, or are we done for today as we come up on the hour?
+23:59 <stukreit> hey, the hour is up.
+23:59 <stukreit> move to adjourn
+00:00 <+Bart_Massey> seconded
+00:00 <agd5f> +1
+00:00 <+Bart_Massey> Gratz curro!
+00:00 <+Bart_Massey> Thanks for helping us out!
+00:00 <+alanc> thanks for coming everyone, see you in two weeks
+}}}